Choose fontsize:   H *  L *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
 
Menu
  Global Menu
     Home
     Forum
     Links
     Log In
     Contact SCF
  
  Rink Info
     Curling Availability
     Come & Try Sessions
Members
Total Members: 653
Latest: Replicurl1
Stats
Total Posts: 11291
Total Topics: 618
Online Today: 28
Online Ever: 176
(February 06, 2010, 02:51:31 PM)
Users Online
Users: 1
Guests: 24
Total: 25
Permissions

Pages: [1]
  Send this topicPrint  
Author Topic: 1984 Scottish Championship  (Read 791 times)
Devils Advocate
Skip
****
Offline Offline

Curling Club: mystery
Posts: 355


« on: July 30, 2010, 09:43:28 AM »


I found the clip on bobs blog very interesting and a good comparison to the situation today.

You have to wonder where it all went wrong in a relatively short time.

First thing to note was that many of the same players are still competeing now - at that time they were a really good junior team - one of many good young teams of the time. So the question has to be why are they still to the fore and why hasnt a succession of younger teams kicked them into retirement long ago?

Note the interest and number of spectators - why arent people coming along to watch now?

A major sponsor - a pipe dream now?

On the Telly at a decent time.

Numbers of teams to enter that year - Bob will know but i can bet it was many times the current entry --- What is deterring teams from entering now? For heavens sake they got 24 teams to play at stirling in the middle of summer!

The whole thing now is corrupted and lost its way - a complete change in mindset is required, back to basics perhaps for the competition - maybe a new CEO can provide it??? then again .......probably  not!

Logged
slipsliding
Second
**
Offline Offline

Curling Club: C&R
Posts: 50


« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2010, 10:28:26 AM »

Hi Devils Representative,  Perhaps the current Board Minutes may help you understand,

< BK reported on the process that led to the decisions to invite Teams Murdoch, MacDonald and MacMillan to the men's play-downs. The invites to the ladies play-downs are for the teams that have qualified through the Scottish Championships. It was felt there was not enough evidence to change the invitations that have been made and it was agreed that the invitations should stand.

It was felt that for the future the Performance Committee should be more involved in the decision. For the future it was suggested that a committee would be made up of the Convenors of Performance and Events, a Director and the National Coach. A procedure will be written up for future reference, BK and JJ will draft a suggested process. >

How many under 30 players does this group of teams offer competition experience to?

Carefully worded to suggest that no other teams challenged the original change of the selection system.


Logged
Devils Advocate
Skip
****
Offline Offline

Curling Club: mystery
Posts: 355


« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2010, 01:22:56 PM »

SS - fraid still none the wiser.
Logged
fermerfaefife
Skip
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 260


« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2010, 01:47:12 PM »

I can remember going along to the finals at Kirkcaldy the year that Billy Andrew won - the place was buzzing and the support was very partisan with a fair few busloads of Ayrshire folk partaking of the hospitality.

Unfortunately I couldnt find any record how many teams initially entered but i suspect it was certainly over 60 possibly nearer 100 teams.

I agree the Structure of the Scottish should be looked at - it is almost criminal that the main event can draw only 26ish teams from some 14,000 curlers across scotland. - Thats probably why the sponsorship has gone down the plug and with it any mainstream TV coverage of note. It is no longer the "Grand Finale" of the Scottish curling season for either the players or the spectators.

What creates a buzz for spectators and good competition in any sport? My answer to that would be a loyalty to a team, club or area - Tribal loyalty as it were.

We  see it every week at football, rugby, golf even -- The Scottish has lost that loyalty and representation- you only represent yourselves and supporters dont know who to support as the teams are generally from a concentrated area.

Back to basics sound pretty good to me as a starting point.
Logged
hoglinewamphray
In Da House
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 702


WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2010, 04:35:21 PM »

Numbers of teams to enter that year - Bob will know but i can bet it was many times the current entry

Thanks for this DA! Much as I like a challenge, I cannot find anywhere an accurate record for the number of teams which set out from ice rink level to challenge for the Scottish title that year. Rinks then had their own qualifiers to find a couple of teams to go forward to District Playdowns. This was not usually recorded centrally, not as far as I can find in the Annuals of the time, nor in the Scottish Curler or Curling magazines.

In 1984, there were four District Playdowns, at Ayr (ten teams), Aviemore (ten teams), Murrayfield (ten teams), and Dundee (eight teams). I have found almost all the names of those who played Districts that year. Two qualified from each for the eight-team Scottish Finals.

So, best I can say was that in 1984, there was, at minimum, 38 teams at the outset. If I remember correctly it would have been somewhat more than that. But it would be a guess if I said perhaps around 50. So, not huge numbers.

I'm not sure that I agree with fff that the past was perfect. Because of the iniquities and unevenness of the District system, there were many at that time who argued for a 'central entry', which is what eventually came about.

Bob
Logged
slipsliding
Second
**
Offline Offline

Curling Club: C&R
Posts: 50


« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2010, 01:13:01 PM »

SS - afraid still none the wiser.
I was simply pointing out if you look st the the three teams selected for the European Play offs
David Murdoch (Skip) Warwick Smith, Glen Muirhead & Ross Hepburn
Hammy McMillan (Skip) David Smith, Ross Paterson & Sandy Gilmour
Ewan MacDonald (Skip) Peter Loudon, Graeme Connal & Euan Byers
Since season 98/99 only three new faces are being given the opportunity to experience the pressure of trying to qualify. Muirhead, Hepburn and Gilmour.
The other Scottish championship winners in that period are
Craig Wilson,Peter Smith,Neil Murdoch,David Hay,Graham Cormack,Steve Rankin,Robert Kelly
Neil Hampton,Tom Pendreigh,
how many of them are still playing competitively,what does that say for the recent years curling  development systems and programmes to produce players to challenge to representative Scotland in the next ten years.

Logged
Devils Advocate
Skip
****
Offline Offline

Curling Club: mystery
Posts: 355


« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2010, 04:51:49 PM »

Ah SS - with you and couldnt agree more - as i said - why havent younger teams come along and kicked the old stagers into the rough?

Certainly IMVHO the trend towards lottery funding and selection has a lot to do with it - an ever decreasing circle of talent - e.g Murdoch gets supported, plays in international spiels, gets loads of experience, wins scottish , gets funded again and so on --- nobody has the resources and the experience to break through. (as Tom Brewster once said after a scottish final)

Also more appropriate to this thread is the fact that preferential treatment of some teams in the Scottish doesnt allow young teams, newer teams, teams that just want to have a go, - the chance to play against the big guns and gain that experience, and play in a full blown serious round of the Scottish in a championship format. By the team these big guns enter the competition many of the younger teams have exited - imagine the boost for a junior team to play against Hammy or Murdoch - it just doesnt happen enough.

It seems that the Scottish these days in football parlance just doesnt have the "romance of the cup" where anybody stands a chance on the day.
Logged
jjk
In Da House
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 557


« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2010, 05:00:12 PM »

Who am I to disagree with hogline but that was about the time I started playing the "mens" and we had to go through a pre- qualifying weekend at kinross to get to the "local playdowns". So if about 20 teams were entering at kinross i think there would have been a LOT more than 50 teams nationally.
With regards to the 1984 video clip events at "old" perth were usually well attended and there was significant local interest in the "great white hopes"...hays, smiths, keillor etc....justifiably so!!!  The STV coverage of curling (albeit it v.shaky at times) undoubtedly helped the profile of the sport and everyone knew when events like the scottish champs, edinburgh and ayr internationals were taking place and ,i guess, that made them more likely to go to the ice rink to see the action live. I think sometimes on this forum we forget that the average club curler (the lifeblood of the sport) is not always aware when the national championships are on. TV coverage after the finals are finished is not a great recruitment tool!
With regards to new young teams it is my personal experience that young curlers are leaving the sport because of the funding/squad selections etc... but that is a debate we have already had.
Logged
The Phantom Nuisance
Vice
***
Offline Offline

Curling Club: Thornton
Posts: 230



« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2010, 12:51:29 PM »

The answer is simple  " ELITISM " how many underdogs actually get a sniff of a chance of qualifying now. The be all and end all is the blue coats want only the best players there ( maybe there is favouritism ) and dont want to see some of the younger guys come through as " they might not be upto that level yet " . We managed to do it in the past we can do it again now , I say we go back to the local playdowns - district playdowns - Finals , to find our Champion. All this Elitism has done is stunted the progress of our sport in  this country.
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Send this topicPrint  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.12 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
BlueSkies design by Bloc | XHTML | CSS
racehost web solutions | Lo-Fi version