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Author Topic: 2010 Ford World Championship in Canada  (Read 10034 times)
Sandy Morton
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« Reply #195 on: March 29, 2010, 10:14:31 PM »

I think most Curlers have different ideas about tactics so I'll pass on the first one.  The pickup was as vicious as any I have ever seen.

I think it's on Eurosport player now if you want a second look but you may have to pay for it.
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Stuart
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« Reply #196 on: March 29, 2010, 10:16:05 PM »

I couldn't see the head properly at the end from the stream I was watching, I presume that freezing the shot stone wouldn't have achieved the desired result?

Also I presume that the pick in the 10th put paid to any opportunity that Eve had to make two?

Feedback would be appreciated Smiley

I've watched the extra end a couple of times on TSN.CA's website.  The freeze wouldn't have achieved much - it would have left an open draw to the button.

The guard was the best choice, The amount of ice taken was correct BUT the rock simply went too deep - it seems the sweepers didn't understand that line was everything, doesn't matter how deep - you've got to cover shot rock to make a take-out as tricky as possible. But the rock went too deep and therefore over-curled.

If the rock is one to two feet lighter it would have covered the shot rock perfectly. That would have made Schoep think about an in-turn draw (by the way she hadn't made one all game), a double or a soft weight come-around tap-back.
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Stuart
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« Reply #197 on: March 29, 2010, 10:26:26 PM »

And I should add :

The front-end can be blamed for the pick in the 10th end. It picked so viciously and so quickly after it left Eve's hand obviously they hadn't pre-cleaned the path sufficiently.

A little harsh maybe but pre-cleaning the path, the hack area and the rock is the front-end's responsibility.
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BankerGolfer
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« Reply #198 on: March 30, 2010, 12:20:52 AM »

Thanks Stuart for the reply. I had thought that Eve's shot stone was pretty much in the button and that it was impossible for Germany to draw its stone any closer without attempting a takeout. That's why I wondered why Eve didn't freeze her last stone to her shot stone.

If there was room for Germany to draw even closer to the center of the button, I can understand why Eve played a guard.

I couldn't see the head properly at the end from the stream I was watching, I presume that freezing the shot stone wouldn't have achieved the desired result?

Also I presume that the pick in the 10th put paid to any opportunity that Eve had to make two?

Feedback would be appreciated Smiley

I've watched the extra end a couple of times on TSN.CA's website.  The freeze wouldn't have achieved much - it would have left an open draw to the button.

The guard was the best choice, The amount of ice taken was correct BUT the rock simply went too deep - it seems the sweepers didn't understand that line was everything, doesn't matter how deep - you've got to cover shot rock to make a take-out as tricky as possible. But the rock went too deep and therefore over-curled.

If the rock is one to two feet lighter it would have covered the shot rock perfectly. That would have made Schoep think about an in-turn draw (by the way she hadn't made one all game), a double or a soft weight come-around tap-back.

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BankerGolfer
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« Reply #199 on: March 30, 2010, 12:24:10 AM »

By front-end, do you mean the lead and second?

I was also surprised that the sweepers didn't sweep away that rock that picked Eve's stone. Is it difficult for sweepers to clean a stone's path consistently? Are stone picks a relatively common occurence? I ask as someone who has never curled before.

And I should add :

The front-end can be blamed for the pick in the 10th end. It picked so viciously and so quickly after it left Eve's hand obviously they hadn't pre-cleaned the path sufficiently.

A little harsh maybe but pre-cleaning the path, the hack area and the rock is the front-end's responsibility.
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Stuart
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« Reply #200 on: March 30, 2010, 01:24:21 AM »

Yes - front end is the lead and second.

Here in Canada It's standard practice for us to coach and execute that whilst the third and skip are deciding which shot to play and selecting their ice that the front-end are making sure the rock, hack area and the path of the rock are free from debris - by looking and cleaning with their brushes.

Actually - the two folks sweeping are looking and cleaning on every shot. It's happened many a time that my sweepers, and I am a second, will say wait a minute there's something on the ice in front of your rock.

Of course they must then check the head of their brushes to make sure they're clean - if something is on the brush head one will just risk it falling off in front of the rock when it's thrown and one sweeps.

Watch Kevin Martin's front end sometime - you'll see that they are constantly doing house cleaning.
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David_P
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« Reply #201 on: March 30, 2010, 01:49:42 AM »

Stuart are you suggesting that every rock be swept regardless of weight? 
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Stuart
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« Reply #202 on: March 30, 2010, 02:37:24 AM »

No - not at all.

I'm saying that the sweepers should always clean up the rock, hack area  and travel path before a rock is thrown.

Then, after the rock is thrown - keep it clean - meaning a light sweep in front to remove any hidden debris in the way - always with the fabric brush not the bristle brush.

How often do you hear a call from the house - clean, clean? 
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BankerGolfer
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« Reply #203 on: March 30, 2010, 05:39:18 AM »

Thanks Stuart for the explanations.

How "dirty" does the sheet get during the match? Does the debris consist mainly of pebble ice that gets broken off the floor by the sweeping or does actual dirt and stuff make it's way on to the playing surface.

With all the sweeping by the players during the ends, along with the sweeping done by maintenance staff after each end and after the 5th end, where does all this debris come from and how does it still get there in the first place?

Again, I've never been to a curling rink before so I'm just curious. Thanks.
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Dunoonrock
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« Reply #204 on: March 30, 2010, 07:55:09 AM »

Debris can come off the body, clothing, from the brushes. These brushes may be cleaned at each end but the debris may have been pushed away from the path of the previous stone. Also the players often stand off the ice in Arena ice on the carpet. Dirt from other shoes (players, umpires, tv camera men and photograpers is carried into that area. it can be picked up and carried onto the ice. There is also the possibility of dirt coming off overhead beams ect.  thiese spects of dirt can be microscopic but enough to catch the stones running band and divert it. Often this dirt might be enlarged as it is warm and hits the ice melting a little ice and changing the surface.
All leads and seconds should have swept the ice on returning up the sheet. It should be habit and at the end of such a game absolutely essential. I dont know if they failed to do that in this case. However the skipp or third (ifthey are playing the shot) should also sweep the ice gently as they come back.

Regarding Eve's last stone. I have not looked at a replay but was her shot stone not just behind the T line on thecentral circle? Hence a freeze although in theory perfect, could be moved and along with the shot stone with a hit at the right angle. Andrea had 2 stones in on the other side of the central rings. She just needed one to win if she lost one.
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The Drifter
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« Reply #205 on: March 30, 2010, 08:32:55 AM »

WCF curling rules state that before sweeping a stone must be set in motion therfore technically players should not pre sweep the ice for any debris.
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voila
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« Reply #206 on: March 30, 2010, 09:40:02 AM »

I think too much has been made of Eve's pick-up. Pick-ups happen all the time...just about every game, and you have to deal with them. I'm a firm believer that you make your own luck in curling. Lets not forget that during the 10th end, Schopp had played a very aggressive end and was in a very strong position. Eve's stone picked up when she was looking for a double takeout just to lie one when she needed a two. If she had managed to get it behind the guard the double was hardly on. So the most Eve was looking for at that stage was a one (a two if she was very lucky). As it transpires, Andrea's sweepers mucked up her last stone and left a perfect plant to allow Eve back in.

Not much is said about Lyndsay Wilson's pick up on the third last stone of the 10th end of the Scottish final. She had just played a perfect draw and Kelly's last stone couldn't follow it perfectly, leaving a split for Lyndsay to set up a two with only skips stones left. Her perfectly played stone picked and caught the guard and Gail could only tie the game like Eve did. The rest is history. As is the result of the 2010 Ladies Worlds.

Dave Murdoch won last year's worlds fair and square. Blame for Norway's defeat was attributed to Ulsrud's pick-up. Come on, Norway were outplayed...end of story. A pick-up is only one shot out of 80...the 79 other shots didn't pick-up.

So please don't keep blaming a pick-up rather than congratulating Schopp and team for a brilliant performance.
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JohnMinnaar
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« Reply #207 on: March 30, 2010, 10:00:34 AM »

WCF curling rules state that before sweeping a stone must be set in motion therfore technically players should not pre sweep the ice for any debris.

This is a valid point, usually ignored by players. My understanding is that, if both skips agree, the sheet can be swept without running stones, either by the players or the ice technician, and the umpire will usually give the nod. It is my understanding that the rule exists mainly to avoid a scenario where the players, or one team, can insist on sweeping the whole sheet before every stone is played, which is really getting silly.

I do agree with DR that the delivering end should be kept clean by available players, which is not sweeping a stationary stone but cleaning the area. There is in fact NO reason why players should be sweeping the line as they go towards the hack, and this is technically illegal. Sliding along the line with a brush/pad along that line cannot be called sweeping, and seldom achieves more than spreading the dirt about a bit. Good sweeping from when the stone is in motion should cope with as much dirt as can be cleared from the running line, but unfortunately very few players can sweep fast enough to cover all the ice down than line. Therefore pick-ups will always happen, and more often that not they are caused by sweeping!
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Boss Hog
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« Reply #208 on: March 30, 2010, 12:11:03 PM »

Was interested in the German skips comments as quoted recently on The Curling News site.

On the Olympics:-
I wouldn’t mind if all this crap were cancelled… The Olympics are just annoying… I feel zero excitement.

On the Worlds:-
I wasn’t looking forward to the Olympics, but the whole season I was looking forward to this event. I know I’m not normal and maybe a little bit crazy and different, but that’s the way I’m feeling.
This event you play just for you. You are the main sport, you are the people where everything is all about (you). The Olympics, as a curler, you are kind of in the background.


Slightly different approach.
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JohnMinnaar
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« Reply #209 on: March 30, 2010, 01:05:55 PM »

On the Olympics:-
I wouldn’t mind if all this crap were cancelled… The Olympics are just annoying… I feel zero excitement.

I confess, the comment has made me realise that I felt the same during the entire escapade. Much of it has to do with the time difference, I suppose, and not being able to watch much of the Olympics at all. But throughout I had to at least try to dismiss all the national expectations of all the countries, let alone Scotland, whilst the players themselves were mere pawns in the Big Funding Games. Baron Pierre would certainly be turning in his grave, or was that a loopy-de-loop I just saw?

Sport has become exclusive and elitist, and is being controlled by top money and top HHYs. It does very little for me, and even good football is becoming impossible to watch on television unless you can afford your own private viewing. A bit like a peep show, they want the money first. Curling? IF you can find out where to watch it and IF you can afford it, even Eurosport couldn't provide an answer at a reasonable time of day. Give me a good game of curling and never mind the Olympics or the elite.
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