Okay, points taken. I did not include Kirkcaldy in the figures because I understand that while some from that area will travel, most will not -- they curl at Kirkcaldy more for the social side.

As for only two sessions, it will still have to be three to accommodate the schools at 1630.

Growing numbers is based on wishful thinking. Your point is valid, but the demography stays the same and there are many curlers in Kinross that cannot be considered young. Many new curlers will be recruited, but many will also leave the game.

To replace the curling at Kirkcaldy, I suggest someone in the Dunfermline area starts planning on a new facility there! And by the way, it is as quick to get to Kinross from Edinburgh than Kirkcaldy -- do we count the Gogar curlers too?

About as congested as Cupar at that time, then!

There is a new report added to the site, which will be of interest to many. It is the letter from the Kinross Curling Club to the Council, in "defense" of the location. The link is here:

http://scotgreen.info/kinrosscurlingtrust.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7:kinross-cc-write-to-community-council&catid=1:news

I say in "defense", because that is what it appears to be to me. Of course, when we were still involved in the bid (in fact, it was the SCIG who persuaded the hotel to get involved!), it was because we thought the location was excellent, and we still think so. Clearly others do not feel the same. The objections we had to the project after we were expelled involved many other aspects of the bid, which are strangely not in the letter. It is my belief that those who object to the location, as the simplest thing to object to, might well also be objecting to some other aspects, which are not as simple to object to.

If anyone has any questions regarding the objections on any matter, feel free to ask them here. Similarly, feel free to speak in support.

Thanks, Wreckingball, and welcome to the forum. It must be said that the objections would not come from curlers, who have much to gain, but from those who have nothing to gain and something to lose. As for no other objections, I must tell you that I receive many emails on the subject and, while I can see their misgivings and doubts, I do not pass them on or make them public unless they appear sufficiently valid. In the latter case I will ensure that they reach Bob Tait and let him at least be aware of the contents.

As someone said to me, go and buy a new car. The salesman will tell you all the good points and everything you want to hear. The guy sweeping the street outside might know better and might try to tell you, but you will not necessarily listen to him. Only when the wheels fall off as you drive around the corner will you be prepared to listen, and then blame the poor man for not warning you -- the fact that the streetsweeper used to sell cars once upon a time has no relevance before then. So, listen to the objections and deal with them, before things go wrong.

Analogies are like that! But seriously, if I were involved in the planning of the complex, I would listen to ALL objections and deal with them in public. The choice of site seems a problem and they're dealing with it. But if the other objections are not voiced, they will not be dealt with, in public or otherwise. That's when wheels can fall off.....

Correct. But given the history of this process that stretches back many years, I do not believe that I should voice further objections -- my own thoughts and objections are contained in the many contributions I have made on this forum, and here:

http://www.scottishcurlingicegroup.org/thecircle2.php

As a summary, I have serious doubts that what is planned is appropriate for the purpose, based on the specifications I had to work with. It is going to cost far too much, and the curlers of Kinross will have to pay for it. But I'm the street sweeper here, and unless people want to hear what I have to say there's no point in my saying anything. While the RCCC are doing their best to do a good job, the main point being voiced to me is that many Kinross curlers no longer care for the project and will be aiming to curl at Cupar.

It's like this: the SCIG has worked hard for many years to find answers for the problems of curling and curling ice that we have had to address in our work. The thanks we get for that is to be expelled from the entire process, for no reason, other than someone's bright idea. If our knowledge, which is specialised, is not wanted by Scottish curling to build a sound future, we will have to sit back and see if the wheels fall off. We know how to do this properly, but we're not allowed to, and many curlers want to know why.

The situation is this: For the area currently served by Kinross curling rink with four sheets, the proposals are to provide the same area with ten sheets. For Cupar to survive, we estimate that at least half of the curlers in that area of Fife will have to curl at Cupar. Bend figures any way you want, that is the current reality, with the proposed NCA only attracting an additional 10% more business than the current number curling in Kinross. If Gogar Park or anyone else builds as well, the situation does not look too good at all. There are many loyal curlers who can afford to keep curling in the financial crunch, but I have not yet seen any evidence that there will be a significant increase in the numbers. If Cupar is curling friendly (as in small and social), Kinross will be looking for curlers to fill three sheets that risk being empty, simply because curlers -- as they tell me -- would rather curl in a friendly four sheeter than a barn of a six sheeter, except for the odd competition.

Projections look good on paper, but wishful thinking does not fill a curling rink -- good ice and a friendly atmosphere of "home from home" will be essential.

As I pointed out long ago, those from Kirkcaldy who are prepared to travel are already doing so, mainly to Kinross. There is no guarantee that they will stay there. Those won't don't travel have said that they will probably give up curling if Kirkcaldy closes. If -- it hasn't done so yet and Phantom Nuisance will do his best to keep them going. Even so, if they start to travel there is also no guarantee that they will go to Kinross, they are social curlers.
People who can't get evening ice will also decide which of the new ten sheets they will go for. Kinross will get some of them. The 12 sheets per evening will be half occupied, whether it is three sessions of four or two sessions of six. The other half will be curling in Cupar.
Teaching ice is already available and does not affect peak ice, nor does it bring in much money.

As you say, we've been over all this before. It is surprising that you don't seem to understand what I'm saying.