Although I am not in possession of all the facts, the Gogar angle is an interesting one. The Gumleys, a curling family of some repute, built Gogar for curling and it became perhaps the most significant rink in Scotland. The Gumleys also proposed to extend the facility into a Centre of Excellence long before anyone had the brains to grasp the golden opportunity. Along came RBS, bought the land, closed the rink, built their headquarters and almost inevitably went bust.

Here we have the Montgomeries, not a curling family, offering a piece of land in an excellent location for today's equivalent of the COE. This opportunity must surely be grasped. The difference between the two, however, is that the money is not theirs, it is ours. Taxes, donations, ice fees, F&B and commercial loans will foot the bill -- the curlers will foot the bill. Is that more secure than RBS? Can the Montgomeries go bust?

These are hard financial times, the hotel will lose tens of thousands every year when their curling rink closes, they will have to work very hard to replace the money from other sources. Yes, they have every right to charge rent for the land. They have every right to profit from accommodation etc. during competitions -- 20 teams over a weekend can generate at least £12k at the till, if this can be pulled off. I imagine the hotel will also gain from the bar and food in the rink, should they get the franchise. The fact is, the only group that will gain from the exercise will be the hotel, while the curlers will pay the price.

I think there will be some very serious and tricky negotiations on the horizon. Unless the curlers gain all the income of the rink, the rink will go bust. If the hotel doesn't get enough income, it too can go bust.

By the way, Voila, £1-2m is probably about half what the whole thing will cost.

Does any else notice the striking similarity of language and amazingly similar setup and fundraising in the Kinross release compared to those by the Fife Curlers......

Go to the Fife Curling Website www.fifecurling.co.uk and look over the website and also click onto the presentations to compare - with these done in Nov (well before the Kinross one was up and running)

i think the phrase that contains the words "sincerest form of flattery" strikes the mind and also the word that begins with P and ends in ISM!

Has the RCCC taken the Fife Curlers ideas from their NCA submission and ripped them off?

When it comes to poaching ideas from others, both the RCCC and MHG are experts. The work that Fife Curling Trust has done through Dave Steel has been careful, systematic and well focused, and of course it is going to be poached. However, in a sense the race is on to see who takes the money off the curlers of Fife, such as can be taken, because there is only so much and not enough to go round for two facilities. The question must therefore be asked: Could a simpler NCA have allowed for more money available to Fife CT, and the answer must be yes.

HH, both the RCCC and MHG have been poaching my work for months. They have taken what they want/need and thrown me out with all they didn't want. They will now steadily corrupt many aspects to suit themselves and pretend they've done the work themselves. I have seen reports and letters where my own reports and letters have been repeated word for word, with no acknowledgement to the SCIG in any way. Copy/paste is what they do. The planned meeting on the fifth is no exception, when I mentioned the importance of such a meeting there was uproar, but the report I prepared for them after that meeting will now form the basis of this meeting. They're six months behind, that's all, because without our work they wouldn't have much!

The latest is a run on the SCIG website from Scottish computers, many addresses those of construction firms looking for serious information. Traffic has increased more than ten times for the month, with over 500 hits in the last two days alone. I have now taken the precaution to warn them that they won't find what they're looking for, because the specialist knowledge about building a curling rink is not there.

http://www.scottishcurlingicegroup.org/thecircle2.php

Steve, I'm kind of taken aback here. All I have written on this forum is to question some of what has been said and asked where figures have come from. So far I have been accused of defending Jamie Montgomery (against what, I have no idea as I had no idea that anyone was attacking him. Are they?), and now of talking about stuff that I have no idea about.

OK, guys, I apologise for being an awkward so and so and asking questions that you don't want to answer. I had no idea that is simply a soapbox for you guys. I won't bother you further with any participation.

I fear the horse has bolted but I for one hope your questions have not dried up SteveW

Hey, will anyone be going to the meeting in Kinross tonight? Word is there will be some fun and games. I mean, this is the future of Scottish curling we're talking about, that all-singing & dancing new building that's too big to make good ice!

or even take a webcam and put it on a website?  and after tonight put it in the room where the Board meeting will be held tomorrow