So, what do Forum members think of the contents of the update about the National Curling Academy project posted this morning?

See here:
http://curlingtoday.blogspot.com/2009/01/national-curling-academy-to-be-run-by.html
or here
http://www.royalcaledoniancurlingclub.org/nlstory.cfm?ID=31897&NLID=40830

No comment as yet. My thoughts are here:

http://www.scottishcurlingicegroup.org/thecircle.php

Part Two will refresh a few memories.

indeed DR and sad to reflect on that unpalatable fact - but there we are.

I agree that it seems odd that the Kinross lease negotiation has been held back until now.  It could now almost be seen by the other side as a "distress" purchase.  It is a simple but valid rule of negotiating that you should tell people and be specific about what it is that you want, but try to hide how badly you need it!

The words, "I've already done a deal elsewhere and now need you to agree for me to implement the deal" (aka, "I'm bleedin' desperate, mate!") and the striking of a good commercial deal rarely go hand in hand !

Still and all, there's where we are for the moment and doubtless things will pan out in the fullness of time.

Interesting stuff on JM's website, BTW about the whole Kinross episode.  JM has never been one to sit on the fence, mind you .

I can confirm that I am not being consulted. I can also confirm that the SCIG website IS being consulted, on any subject remotely related to building a curling rink, and the Circle in particular. The visitors include several important construction companies only since yesterday, and none of them have anything to do with curling or had ever visited the site before. In the last day alone the hits are 14 times higher than average, some 200 hits in one day. Another day and Scotland will overtake Canada for hits, which is something I never thought I'd see. It makes me wonder why they don't simply send me an email and ask what they want to know!

Jokes apart, I've now had a close read of the update, which says about as much as the normal minutes of the board meeting. I see MASSIVE problems ahead, especially regarding cost and who will pay (the curlers will, of course). I also want to know how many magnificent trees are going to be felled, and who will clean the gutters of leaves from the remaining trees. I feel like crying, and Celia has taken to her bed in disgust.....

I have to agree with JM on the costs issue, do we know what the budget is? I would suspect this proposal will be over the EU Procurement Threshold of c£3.4m and will need to be advertised through the OJEU Procurement route, I am not aware of the RCCC or Sport Scotland having a list of Framework Contractor's in place?

Costs need to be looked at realistically, Perth cost c£4.5m and was tendered 20 years ago! Appreciate Perth has a bowling facility but construction costs have increased by c100% in 20 years.

FB, when the windows go green and the gutters need clearing, your name is top of the list! I did see mention of funding from the Energy Saving Trust.....

I also did not fully realise exactly where Jamie wanted to build this thing until Bob took the picture and published it. I had been given the impression that the trees would have been saved, and the facility would have been built on the Market Green itself. It just shows how easily people can be misled!

I trust that viola will be attending the meeting on the 5th Feb where I am sure that those who know better will answer her questions on why those that DO know better have not been consulted in reguard to ice etc

Sorry, Steve, I had no intention of pushing you over the edge! I was simply trying to answer some questions. Okay, so I'll continue and answer your points.

Firstly, there is a row of about 5 trees on the northern edge of the current golf club car park which will presumably have to be removed, however, I do not think that this is any greater a number than would have had to have been removed from the walled garden inside the hotel grounds. So this is the first piece if inconsistency in John's post.

There are no trees within the walled garden, and most of the shrubs on the walls would have been saved for replanting after the building was finished. Three trees at the west of the walled garden are leaning towards the wall, and we had planned to fell these and save the timber to build the bar and other items in the new rink. Inconsistency is perhaps the wrong word, but never mind.

I don't recall ever seeing it overflow during the curling season.

Fair point, but the new rink will have a ten-month season. The garden site would have used the site of the current rink as additional parking area, with a new one-way system for access using existing gateways. No problems there.

land value

I can only repeat the information given to us by the hotel owners.

not going to be cheap, payable every year, for life

Not my problem, never was, but it has to be taken seriously. I have heard figures from all parties varying from £10k p.a. to £50k p.a. I also know that the curling rink will have to find this money from its profits, and the disposable portion is less than £100k, of which AT LEAST half will have to pay off the loans. I always believed the RCCC will negotiate these figures, but the fact remains that a high rent will be a disaster for the rink.

But no, I am not chewing sour grapes here. We did our research over many years and presented our data at no cost to the project, a savings of many tens of thousands to the project. They are now paying the experts to do the same work, using our research from our website, thinking this will solve all the problems. Believe me, it is not that simple. But if you think I am wrong in speaking up for what I believe, then please say so. May I suggest you are taking my words a little personally here, I do wish the project well. It is however extremely worrying when I see what is happening and perhaps my words will help those involved to think a bit more and more clearly.