Having spent a week or two studying the latest plans for the NCA complex (which were also on display at the Highland Show) and thinking these through, I believe I should voice my opinion as best I can. Because I cannot publish the plans, and because I can't find a published version on the internet (you might well ask why not), I'll refer to the plans submitted by the SCIG. These can be found here, for reference.

http://www.scottishcurlingicegroup.org/circle/CirclePlans.pdf

Many of our ideas have been incorporated in the NCA, such as the position of the changing rooms and upstairs restaurant and viewing areas. There, however, the similarity ends. The plan is for six sheets, obviously based on the Aberdeen example, for which I can still see no justification and less so in an era of falling demand. To make room for the extra sheet and the walkways, some eight metres of floor space down the length of the building has been lost, with the RCCC offices now occupying the downstairs club room and the museum squeezed into where our gym area would have been (upstairs and far from everything else). The seminar room is now next to the museum and also upstairs, making it very unsuitable for use by curlers who need to be closer to the ice. There now is no club room, with curlers obliged to use the restaurant area. Accommodating wheelchairs will be very difficult with only one usable lift and no room to socialise downstairs, and only two disabled cubicles. In short, everything has been squeezed simply to accommodate an extra sheet of ice that is not needed.

The plant room is tacked onto the side and it is clear that the job of making good ice will be hampered in many ways. I cannot comment on any technical plans, because I have not seen any. What I do see is a very impressive façade of offices for the RCCC and NCA activities, with a curling rink at the back and no real consideration for the day-to-day curlers who will ultimately have to pay the bill. So far removed from the Circle are these plans that fortunately it will never be referred to as such, but my fear is that it will be called the Semi Circle because it can only do half the job.

I have always said that, if the Circle ever gets built, it will be better. There can be no doubt of this now. These plans try very hard to solve the same problems that we had to solve and they fail, because they are not dealing with the problems. This is a complex now designed and to be built for the RCCC and the NCA, not for local curling. If this is to be what the curlers must pay for, I am deeply disappointed. A tremendous opportunity to further the good of curling and curling ice is being blown to the wind by people who obviously have no idea what good curling is all about. They might well understand holding on to their jobs and they might be very good at their jobs, but I have no faith in the current plans. Sorry, I've tried my best to be objective, but this is a serious waste of money and opportunity and should not be built.

Thanks for the pointer. The files are now also on the KCT website.

I still don't think this is the best way to solve the problem. It had been my understanding that a curling rink was to be built, but this is a modernist monstrosity that will cost far too much to build and run. Hell, if they can waste money in Dumfries they can do it in Kinross, just find someone to pay for it!

I wouldn't believe everything you read on the KCT website. Take the opening paragraph:

In Spring 2008, Kinross was invited to submit an application to be considered as the venue for the proposed new National Curling Academy.  After submitting a detailed set of proposals, it was eventually confirmed by the RCCC in mid October 2008 that Kinross had been successful.

This is not altogether true. They are remarkably economical with the truth.

As if we'll ever be told, you mean! Fact is, if they can lay their hands on the money they'll spend it. The REAL question is: will it be value for money. I don't think it will matter much to the curlers what it costs, but how much of it they'll have to find. The last estimate that was made public suggested a loan of £1m, and that will have to be repaid from ice fees over at least twenty years, with interest. That means £2m over twenty years, or £100k per year. Not many curling rinks have that kind of revenue, let alone surplus revenue.

We should take bets here. I say final cost £6m.

This is a huge subject, and the questions are easier than the answers. I heard that Perth needed financial help, but whether that was for the curling side only or for the whole complex I don't know. I have also heard that Braehead is well subsidised, but don't quote me on that. Aberdeen is said to be doing fine, but again I don't have figures. When we tried years ago to understand how curling rinks make the money they need very few figures were forthcoming, and even fewer were reliable.

When we planned the Circle, all known and reliable information was taken into account. Yes, it is possible to build a rink and make a profit, but it is not possible to borrow the money for the total cost. A busy four sheeter can make enough money to service a loan of £0.5m as a maximum figure, if it is properly built and run. A larger rink is not as cost effective and, while it can on occasion serve more curlers at a given time, it cannot do so consistently in the same catchment area. One exception is Murrayfield, simply because of its daytime curling, which is achievable in a city where curling has a serious tradition. It is for this reason that the SCIG could not and still cannot support the building of a six sheeter in Kinross, especially considering the current financial climate and the huge loan the project would need. The money is simply not there, and there are not sufficient curlers who can afford to pay the ice fees in that area, and then there is the threat of Cupar stealing a slice of the business.

Looking at Cupar and North Highland, they are planning to build four sheeters. I know that Cupar has costed their project very well and I believe they will build for less than £1.5m, which is consistent with all the costings we have done across Europe for the Circle. The biggest problem is that the Big Boys get hold of the project and the costs double or treble, just like that, as every new expert adds his charges and the building changes to suit everyone's wishes.

A good curling rink is a very simple thing, easy to build and run and -- in the right area -- well able to sustain itself. A palace is a different matter. The question will have to be asked: what does curling need now and through the next 25 years, how to keep the costs down and expertise up. I have always said and say so again, curling needs good and compact curling rinks, not palaces, and while the proposed NCA looks very good in drawings it is a palace curling does not need. As I said, once the Big Boys get hold of it.....

very few figures were forthcoming, and even fewer were reliable

Nothing has changed then. It appears that people are so embarrassed that they don't have enough money, or have spent too much, or have wasted too much, that figures are not available. In this case I'm pretty sure the cost for the NCA is set to exceed £5m, unless they can find ways to cut down, and that is not going to be easy. The horse has bolted, see. Ratho had a similar problem (costs too high and escalating), and I still have no figures I can believe.

Lonegunmen, if you can find the figures for the REAL operating costs of a curling rink, you might well do us all a favour. The council-run rinks usually have other activities attached, affecting the cost, and hotel-run rinks do their best not to make a profit and syphon some income off to run the hotel. Suddenly everyone starts believing that curling cannot make money and it is right that councils should subsidise curling, and the government should pay for the rinks. The moment councils and the government get involved the costs treble, both for building and running. No wonder we see so few rinks being built!

Now, i dont want to second guess those in charge at the top - but all this cash getting spent on the NCA - would that not have been better spent elsewhere?

If it reaches £5 mil - they could have bought Kinross House (currently on the market ) and converted  the ground floor !!

Seriously - even at £3.2m - where is the money coming from and more importantly --- is it worth it?

Will there be activities carried out at the NCA that couldnt have been carried out at an existing ice rink ? will they REALLY do anything THAT different?
Couldnt NCA responsibilities been shared round existing or other new smaller scale rinks that ARE desperately needed at grass roots level? This would have given them all a wee bit extra income also as well as some much needed capital for newbuild or refurbishment.

Now - £1.5m from Sportscotland...If NCA responsibilities had been shared and that had been earmarked for Cupar & Gogar £750k each - i bet that would have gotten both off the ground (due to match funding etc etc) and delivered 2 new rinks where members were desperate for them. That would have been a sound decision.
Perth would be happy, Stirling would be happy. The privately (but well) run Kinross would have carried on for a few years yet - 5 the man said- and it really should have been a question about re-investment for the Hotel group.
The next big question is about the relocation of the RCCC - now this is administration like any other business - what Small businesses with the same level of employees build and own offices nowadays?? For the small fortune they are about to pay would have given them many  many years in let offices. (never mind having staff working from home) Is this a wise use of the RCCC reserves?Could it be better spent doing something constructive for the game?
And for the grand daddy of all the questions - where on earth are they going to get a £1m loan facility in this day and credit crunch age and more importantly (i'm with John on this ) how are they going to service it? income from 600 sheets of ice per year by my calculations just to pay the interest never mind pay back the capital. NOT A CHANCE !!

by the way - nothing like having the museum stuck away at the back of the building - that will get the visitors flocking in !!

Thanks, now we know the (current) score. We do not know where the funding is coming from and, considering the secrecy that surrounds the whole project, they don't know either. As DA says, is the money being spent well. No.

We have spelled all this out many times, people are either bored of the subject or they couldn't care less. Feel free to go through the Circle files again, all I can make public will be there:

http://www.scottishcurlingicegroup.org/thecircle2.php

One very important point to note. If people are already bored of the NCA and/or couldn't care less, there is no future for it. Any curling facility needs the full support of ALL its curlers -- not so much the elite, but the masses who pay the bills. This thing is going so far wrong, it should not be built. The Cupar/Ratho split makes more sense.